[Fukasawa] By the way, are you a third generation Patricia?
[Shimano] Yes. There are many fourth-generation Koreans born in Japan. There are also many fourth-generation Koreans living in Japan who have not obtained permanent residence visas. First of all, I think it would be better to value and support such people who are already in Japan.
[Fukazawa] What happens to a fourth-generation Japanese-born person who turns 20 and leaves their parents' care?
[Nagai] You can just extend it as it is.
[Fukazawa] Can I extend it as long as I'm in Japan?
[Nagai] You can also work.
[Fukazawa] As long as I stay in Japan.
[Nagai] You can renew your visa, or get a re-entry permit and return to your home country temporarily. I believe the re-entry permit is for a maximum of five years. Or, when you leave the airport, you will be checked for deemed re-entry status, and you can either return within one year or go through the proper procedures and return within five years, so you can still live in Brazil.
[Fukazawa] For example, if the parents return to Brazil, can the underage fourth-generation child remain there?
[Nagai] That was a big problem. It would be fine if the fourth generation was already an adult, but in the past, there was no procedure for when the parents returned while the child was still a child. Because there were no clear rules, they had to return to Brazil regardless of their wishes. It was on January 5, 2016 that a notice was issued allowing fourth generation Japanese who were attending school to continue living in Japan.
[Fukasawa] Recently.
[Nagai] So around the time of the Lehman Shock, there were a lot of cases where high school students who had grown up in Japan and could only speak Japanese said they didn't want to go back to Brazil, but their parents decided to return home and they had to go back with them.
Back then, children couldn't stay behind alone. It's improved now, but there aren't many new people returning, so this kind of problem isn't new.
[Fukazawa] The Japanese government is saying that with this fourth-generation visa, they are "extinguishing a helping hand" to people who say, "I returned to Brazil, but now I want to return to Japan."
[Nagai] However, for this to really become a system, it would be bad if there was a limit on how many years you could live. After all, you want to live in Japan.
[Fukasawa] It's not two or three years, right?
[Nagai] First, you need N4 (Level 4 Japanese), and you can't renew it unless you get Level 3 while you're living there. For now, the maximum period is 5 years. It's unclear whether you can continue to live there, but it's been "considered later." So it's become a barrier that makes it difficult for such people to use.
[Shimano] First of all, if you do not have a supporter in Japan, the initial visa will not be issued.
[Fukazawa] That's right. When I read Nagai's column "The Third Generation Visa Problem" ( dated April 14th ), I thought the situation was very similar for fourth generation visas. Even a third generation visa cannot be obtained without a guarantor on the Japanese side. If that's the case, then I thought it would be impossible to obtain a fourth generation visa, which requires a supporter similar to a guarantor.
[Nagai] Outside of the jurisdiction of the Consulate General of Sao Paulo, a guarantor from Japan is required to apply for a third-generation Japanese visa, which is difficult and in fact very few people apply. Furthermore, the guarantor must be a relative, and you have to go through a tedious process at the Immigration Bureau to get a document called a "Certificate of Eligibility for Residence Status." This is only exempt within the jurisdiction of the Consulate General of Sao Paulo.
On the other hand, if you live in Sao Paulo, you don't need relatives in Japan to handle the paperwork, but you do need an employment contract instead. That's kind of a problem.
Because you need to submit an employment contract to apply for a visa, you have to go through a dispatch company. It's quite difficult for an individual to enter into an employment contract with a Japanese company.
[Nagai] CIATE does play a role similar to Hello Work (a public employment agency in Japan) in introducing jobs. However, all the jobs at Hello Work are applied for by Japanese people living in Japan. So all your competitors are going to be those kinds of people.
Basically, there are no jobs on that list that say "As long as you can speak Portuguese, you don't need to speak Japanese." CIATE has requirements for what they can introduce, and one of them is "being able to secure housing," so you can only apply if you have relatives living nearby or the company has a dormitory. The hurdles are extremely high.
There have only been three recruitments so far that said, "We have a dormitory and you don't need to speak Japanese." When those three came out, we were inundated with applications. So, when I applied, I was told, "We don't need to speak Japanese if you can speak Tagalog, but Portuguese is no good" (laughs).
[Fukazawa] Hahaha (laughs)
[Nagai] I wondered why they sent it to me (laughs).
[Shimano] We're from different countries (laughs).
[Nagai] So basically there are no job offers that say "Dormitory provided, no Japanese required."
[Fukazawa] Mr. Nagai, aren't there many people who can go to Japan on the fourth generation visa? The system started in July, but the fact that no one from the Sao Paulo region, which has the largest Japanese population, has gone to Japan on a fourth generation visa doesn't look very good for the future.
[Nagai] The requirements for Japanese language proficiency are strict, so only a limited number of people can go. There is also the question of how many people in Brazil have Japanese language level 4. The age limit is 30, so if you are married, you can't go. You can't bring your family with you. It's not an option.
[Fukazawa] During the Q&A session at Shimoji's lecture, a certain dispatch company that "sent 40,000 people to Japan" declared, "We were really troubled by the third generation. It would be better if we had N4." I felt that those were heavy words. Dispatch companies tend to be the bad guys, but the third generation is no less deserving (laughs).
[Nagai] That's right.
[Fukazawa] Also, during the Q&A session, it was interesting to hear a request that "instead of Japanese N4, could we accept an English proficiency test?" I imagine that some of the supporters may be able to speak English, so if we could make it possible to accept English, even some very talented people may be able to go to Japan.
*This article is reprinted from the Nikkei Shimbun ( August 24th and 25th , 2018).
© 2018 Masayuki Fukasawa / Nikkey Shimbun
